Shoreham – Chapters 3, 4 and 5 – Karl Grossman, Marge Harrison, Rod Adams
Ray has released three more chapters of his Shoreham documentary.
Karl Grossman provides excellent justification for why I thoroughly dislike and disrespect most professional antinuclear activists. He insults an entire profession by coming straight out and accusing all nuclear professionals of being liars whose noses should grow every time we speak about nuclear energy.
He specifically calls Dr. Patrick Moore “one of these Pinocchio People” and says “he is no environmentalist” and has not been for many years. He implies that Moore is a sell out who simply works for the highest bidder. I strongly disagree with nearly everything that Grossman says.
Marge Harrison remembers the good old days when she and her friends decided that they would save the world by stopping nuclear energy. She seems genuine, even if misguided. It seems a little disingenuous, however, for her to complain about the fact that she has had to pay elevated rates ever since the deal was worked out for the state to take over the plant and pay off the loans.
After all, if the plant was operating and providing power, the citizens of Long Island would not be both paying off loans for a failed project AND buying fuel oil to supply the generators that continue to provide the electricity that they need to survive in a modern society. Instead, they would have a low marginal cost nuclear plant that produces zero atmospheric air pollution and no CO2 that quietly supplies power at full capacity for about 7,500-8,500 hours per year.
This final segment in today’s selection includes an appearance by yours truly, Rod Adams. My interview was conducted almost two years ago via Skype; the filmmakers of this video did not have the resources to make a trip to Annapolis to interview me in what was then my home.
I will be one of the first to admit that the owners of the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station did not do themselves any favors. The project was never well managed and the owners got into some serious difficulties with their labor unions. I now work with several people who worked on the construction project and have shared some horror stories about the contentious environment. However, the fact remains that the plant construction was completed and that the plant did meet all of the standards required to be allowed to operate with the exception of getting the emergency response plans signed off by all local governments.
That obstructionism should not have been allowed. The plant owners should have done a better job of explaining to people from the very beginning of the project why they were doing what they were doing. The Shoreham debacle is an object lesson for all businesses who recognize the need to build infrastructure projects that inevitably attract a certain amount of “Not in my backyard” opposition – along with the inevitable opposition from the competition who do not like new suppliers that threaten their market share and the sales prices of their commodity products.
Fukushima goes China Syndrome: melted fuel reaches water table; 29 times more radiation released than Hiroshima
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6JbXZn2TXg
Juan,
Pretty funny stuff indeed. I really got a ‘top 10’ lifetime giggle moment when Paul Gunter stated near the end of the video that the nuclear industry was controlling the air waves and the news to avoid the truth from escaping.
So you want me to believe a Russia Today broadcast quoting the philosophy student dropout turned professional antinuclear campaigner named Paul Gunter? I think you need to get better sources.
The Fukushima Daiichi plant is in stable condition. Cores were damaged but are now cool and solid, not melted. Radioactive material has been contained and the sea water used for cooling is being cleaned up through filtration and ion exchange units.
The media has lost interest because there is no gory story to keep viewers hooked to their screens. There is no “blackout” just typical burnout with a story about people going about the hard work of recovering from a major natural disaster.
Philosophy student dropout? 🙂 I don’t recall hearing that one. Rod, please share.
Excellent feature, Rod. Shame it’s unlikely even PBS will pick up this non-corporate “indie” production.
I can’t wait till the way and method is found to expose the media’s sheer anti-nuclear bias. It’s unreal how much Grossman and his ilk are allowed — and abetted — to get away with murder like this.
James Greenidge
James – the love of money is the root of all evil. The oil and gas industry buys a heck of a lot more ads than the nuclear industry does.
It would be a lot easier for nuclear leaders to moderate and influence media coverage if they were more consistent advertisers.
Unparalleled accuracy, unequivocal clarity, and undeniable impotacrne!
A question I have and maybe the people in Germany need to consider this – Would it be possible to use Shoreham today? That is, is the plant mostly ready to go if it were refueled? Or have enough parts been taken away so that the place is no longer usable? In Germany, it would be good if they kept their plants shut down but together, just in case the utilities change their minds. If need be, would it still be possible to get parts for Shoreham?
Mario Cuomo destroyed it. When they decided to trash Shoreham, a stunt was done to appease Cuomo, who spent countless hours campaigning against the plant. They rigged up a switch on his desk in Albany. Cuomo pushed the button, which turned on a cutting torch that punched a hole in the Shoreham pressure vessel. That effectively ruins the pressure vessel, and you aren’t going to reactivate a facility once you destroy it’s pressure vessel. Unless you have a nuclear plant with all replaceable components. When I was in grad school, one of the design courses I took had a “capstone” project requirement. Mine was just that, designing a plant with all-replaceable components.
Then Cuomo should pay for the pressure vessel. Wow, talk about waste, that point should be the counter point to the complaints about paying for the plant. Some of the parts could have been sold to pay some of the cost, but destroying an un-used pressure vessel is gross waste at criminal level. But when everyone excuses your crime – I guess everyone gets to share in the 6 billion cost. Let them pay!
It was done deliberately so that no one would ever have the use of that PV again. Cuomo wanted to make sure that there was never any chance of resurrecting Shoreham as an operational nuclear facility. That’s why he ruined the pressure vessel. You’re right, it was criminally wasteful. But evidently it was the politically popular thing to do. So, like you, I say, let them all pay for the rest of their lives, the “citizen groups” who campaigned against the plant, the political figures who spoke out against it, the Suffolk County officials who held the e-plans hostage and thereby effectively vetoed the plant’s operating license (something illegal in itself, but no one will hold them to account). Make them all pay the price of their actions.
Hey Wayne! Easy with that axe! I and quite a few live on Long Island and wanted Shoreham and ARE paying thru the nose thanks to the knuckleheads! Too late to help Shoreham but maybe we can stop another Cuomo from wasting another nuke!!
James Greenidge
Mario Cuomo is an idiot. The stories about the trouble that his aids had covering up and spinning some of the absolutely stupid things he would often say are legendary. I think that only Prince Charles rivals him when it comes to making mind-numbingly idiotic off-hand comments.
His son, Andrew, is a thug, and the only reason that he is in office now is that apparently his opponent in the last election was as stupid as his old man, but with much less skilled handlers.
Things do not bode well for Indian Point with Andrew in charge. Fortunately, Bloomberg has some sense and has been a vocal supporter of the plant.
@ Bob Connor,
Just a slight correction to one of your points.
You state: “…just in case the utilities change their minds.”
The situation in Germany is not a utility decision. It is a government decree from the Merkel administration to eliminate nuclear and go to wind and solar that will result in the shuttering and decommissioning of their nuclear plants by 2022.
The utilities have no choice and are going to have to toe the government line and decommission the plants whether they agree or not.
Who says the utilities have no choice and have to toe the government line? I agree that they cannot break the law, but can’t they fight back both through the media – by purchasing time if necessary – and through the courts?
The massive losses that the German utilities have incurred in the last months will be brought to Court for reimbursement.
The CEOs of the 2 major German utilities have expressed their complete opposition to the German government.
In the same week that Germany banned nuclear, Putin, with a few laughs, told the media that Siberian coal, fire logs and natural gas were being piled up for Germany. He himself could not believe that Germany would kill nuclear.
@Rod,
Good points and I don’t disagree.
However the 4 major German utilities are fighting the various “Green” factions which have a firm hold of the government. They will now also be fighting the repopulation issues around Fukushima which is allowing the FUD to spread even more. Especially since Greenpeace seems to have a strangle hold in Germany. Somehow Greenpeace seems to have a higher success rate in Germany in spreading fairy tales about the potential of renewable power then in other countries.
So I guess I am little more pessimistic about Germany especially after seeing EON and RWE looking to divest themselves of various subsidiaries due to needing the cash. They are projecting losses over next few years since their balance sheets took a massive hit with Merkel’s declaration. And even if they win the court cases that is years away, whereas the 7 plants that were down are still down and not providing cash when it was expected.
Another reason for my pessimism is that, as you have pointed out, the history of utilities owning nuclear power plants is not one of activism but one of rolling over especially when it may allow them to trade and sell natural gas which looks better on the quarterly bottom line (as long as the traders are profitable, of course).
The other issue is that RWE is bringing a 1300 MW lignite coal plant online that will be able to take the place of one nuke plant. The 4 majors are looking to bring more coal online which was the game plan pre-2008 when nuclear was on deathwatch in Germany before Merkel went pro-nuclear. (That is a whole other seperate issue which I believe will scuttle any grand wind and solar plans anyway)
On the flip side 2022 is right around the corner from a long range planning and construction standpoint. Something everyone on the political and activist sides just don’t understand. It may take a decade or more to rebuild their T&D infrastructure for more wind and solar and that is if they were already heading that direction which they weren’t. So if the wind and solar activists, that were allowed to run amuck in Germany, can’t get the T&D issues resolved to allow power to move from its geographical point of generation to the point of demand then nuclear will be back on the table within 4-5 years especially since the average German citizen pays some of the highest rate in Europe.
Just some thoughts about the situation
What the Russians couldn’t accomplish in 1948 during the Berlin Airlift they will be able to today; the control of Germany. Oh well, I think it was Napoleon who said, “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
I just thought “Someone” who ordered the shutdown might “change their minds”. Hopefully, the reactors will be shut down and not destroyed just in case the German people need the electricity.
Harvey Wasserman is still trusted and believed. He is articulate and seems to be deeply passionate about what he says. I found this out at work, from the simple reaction of someone who heard him before. What motivates this man?
I don’t know about Harvey. He doesn’t draw that many comments on the Huffington Post anymore except from the usual crowd of antis and promoters. I just don’t think readers in general take his Solartopia message seriously despite the romanticism. It would be neat to live in a straw bale or Earth-ship style home in northern New Mexico (I grew up on Durango, Colorado), but it’s not realistic for most Americans to live that way.
I’m guessing pot. Have you ever looked at his personal website?
I guess after you smoke enough of it, “Solartopia” begins to seem like a really good idea … that and eating some munchies.
Have you noticed the reports of the “Nuclear Incident” due to the shutdown of the various NPPs as the “Major” hurricane as it traveled up the coast. Most were shutdown manually, and at the “recommendation” (orders) of the NRC. Now, the plants are awaiting NRC “approval” to start up – after they have assured the “safe operation.” This is similar the FAA canceling flights if there were thunderstorms expected on the flight path and waiting until there were no clouds before travel could resume. This has two effects that I am sure the chairman of the NRC is well aware of: 1) Nuclear power plants are not safe, and 2) Nuclear power plants are not reliable in an emergency. Note also that when a NPP is tripped offline due to loss of load from a fault on the transmission line, that this also receives nationwide news coverage. However nothing is said for a coal burner – even right it your city/county. Again achieving the same negative implications as above. Plants can, (and were) be designed to operate through a “loss-of-load” with the same, if not better, safety/risk as shutting down in anticipation of something as common as a loss of load. Again, however, I believe the powers that be want to perpetuate the negative connotations of nuclear power.
I say “Major” hurricane sarcastically, in that every transmission line is designed to withstand the maximum expected wind load for the area it traverses through.
I have seen those. They are not reporting on the renewable energy “incident” that is much more grave. The Gilboa dam in the Catskills is in serious danger of being overtopped (or maybe it has been). There was concern earlier that the structure may have been weakened by the earthquake. Remember that “small-scale hydroelectric” (i.e., dams) are a favorite among anti-nuclear renewable energy kooks. Dams are much more vulerable to events like earthquakes and hurricanes than nuclear plants. But the media isn’t reporing it. I wonder why…?
And how did North Anna Dam do with a subsided base on the cold side of the lake. The 5.8 EQ was followed by several north along the Blue Ridge due to rebound and mid Atlantic Ridge extension to the West.
Now East Iceland is moving toward Norway. Iceland may have severl volcanic events and the Ol Earth is morphing.
The issue of the North Anna dam has been addressed in the NAPS UFSAR Rev. 43, 9/27/07, wherein the loss of either the North Anna Reservoir or the Service Water Reservoir is anticipated. In either case, there is demonstrated adequate cooling capability for NAPS.
I guess Mr. Cuomo really hated Shoreham, I mean, why destroy the unit? That is like buying a new car and then blowing it up (like last night on “Breaking Bad”, Walt blows up a new Dodge Challenger). Could there be a way to repair the hole (that is, if it is more of a hole than a crack)? I know that they replace steam generators in nuclear plants so I would see why they could not go further in to replace a pressure vessel. But maybe Shoreham is too far gone and if any utility changes their mind, they need to wreck it all and start over. Meanwhile, I would not think Germany would abandon nuclear power because aren’t the German people good with mechanical products like their cars. I though their plants had a good record.
I guess ruining the unit fit his meme. But in additional to destroying a perfectly good and functional power generator, he ruined the lives of many fine people by destroying their livelihoods. One of them was my former student who had just hired in as head of the C&HP department. But LIPA promised to “take care” of him after they trashed the plant. They made him a forklift operator on a loading dock. Always be wary when someone says they are going to “take care” of you, because the intent is ambiguous at best.
Well, I have an idea that could make use of the facility – Most of us will never see inside a nuclear plant, though I would like to. Why not turn Shoreham into a National Nuclear Power Museum? It could display all the equipment that a power station has and how it all works and also have exhibits about careers, radiation, and science. Is is possible to “decontaminate’ the place to remove all radiation to not expose the museum guests? Perhaps it would be possible to have a rail at the reactor vessel (empty of fuel, of course) and have an exhibit showing the hole that Mr. Cuomo “created” (and he did not even actually take the torch and make the hole himself).