Atomic Show #321 - Andrew Harmon, VP Natura Resources 1

8 Comments

  1. If I wanted to get a University physics experiment approved, I would keep it solid state (i.e. frozen). These salts melt at red hot temperatures. Thare are literally megatons of uranium fluoride in steel kegs in North America – keep it desiccated and keep it cool and it doesn’t corrode things. Same goes for the MCRE experiment that Southern and terrapower are working on. I’m pretty sure most of the relevant physics can be explored in the low Watts power regime.Recall the neutron population has to rise through 20+ decades to reach the 100kw/litre power levels we see in power reactors. Flowing the mechanical loop of molten lava isn’t necessary at this stage.

    issuing a permit to start spending your own money breaking ground is not really seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Godspeed though, for the University and the MCRE.

  2. @Michael Scarangella

    You might be right if physics is your only topic of interest. What if you are interested in chemistry, material behavior, interactions between coolant and materials at temperature in a neutron flux, reliability and performance of pumps and valves and a host of other topics that can be tested and refined with an operating research reactor?

  3. I am so glad to see a Christian University doing this open and hard work of qualifying molten salt reactors. I followed Kirk Sorenson a great deal about 15 years ago. He uncovered a great deal of information and the whole world is indebted to his work. At the same time, it takes specific tests on specific hardware to make progress with a design. Using a university test reactor is a brilliant way to do this! Many of the components can be tested to failure without a major commercial failure in the actual environment they are needed. The whole style of the system could be exchanged for a different design. They might run out of their 5 years of full power operation very soon and move on to a different upgraded design.

  4. Thanks Rod – I’ve been hearing about Molten Salt reactors since about 2010 when Gordon McDowell made some videos with Kirk Sorensen. They sounded like a great idea. All this time I’ve been wondering, where are they? China built one but none in North America.

    I think it’s great someone is finally building one of these. Maybe, they can even test the use of Thorium in this reactor.

    My prejudice will show in the following comment. I really didn’t expect the first one to be built at a private Christian university in a conservative state. Beyond that, the guest said a government agency did a good job. You just don’t hear that from down there. It just didn’t fit my world view. I guess it’s time to change it.

  5. Eino: its shale oil money behind this project, if my reading is correct, to power drilling, fracking & extraction, plus their waste water treatment. This might be similar to the efforts of Terrestrial Energy, formerly headquartered in Canada, and now domiciled in the USA. (Perhaps this HQ change will facilitate getting involved in the benefits from the work of the US National Labs more easily. Someone here may know.) But, their original Canadian-centric business plan was to get Tar Sands funding, to be able to use onsite nuclear steam and electricity to reduce the humongous carbon footprint of tar sands extraction. And also to, obviously, improve the profit situation. But in both the US/Canadian oil industry situations, their investments would ultimately go toward such technologies as nuclear-energy–synthesized liquid transportation fuels. And these, ultimately, will be able to replace petroleum-based fuels. That is, would replace the business of their original financial backers. Down the road, obviously.

  6. “He uncovered a great deal of information and the whole world is indebted…”

    No information about MSRs was lost since MSRE was shelved in 1969, therefore nothing was uncovered. Kirk was simply an early adopter of using internet media (e.g. youtube) to push thorium meme reactors – he once responded to me on a LinkedIn about how he was the “elon musk of nuclear” – epic hubris – true story. He eventually obtained a relevant degree in 2014, years after starting ‘the company’ (which provides no products or services besides PowerPoints presented on the MSR conference tour). I suspect he is independently wealthy.

    I’ve met barely a handful of truly of brilliant people in Nuclear Power: One guy wrote an early AI to reload BWRs 20 years ago and has dozens of patents… another developed the basic concepts that underlie all LWR core simulators in his 1980 PhD thesis (he also dissected the TransAtomic claims). I’ve met many more hard-working respectable types and only very few with the delusions of grandeur required to dominate the armchair discussion on LinkeIn, Reddit, youtube, etc.

  7. I’ve cogitated on your comment a bit. I’ve come to the conclusion that this is a good thing. Oil companies have a lot of money. Oil companies are used to vast market fluctuations and losing money in dry holes. Oil companies have a lot of experts who can help get commercial molten salt reactors up and running. Oil companies have experts in geology. This will help ensure the location and production of the necessary nuclear fuels. I’ll bet some of the technology in oil refining will transfer to the refining of these fuels. Oil companies have Senators and Representatives of the US government in their back pocket. Initiation of unnecessary and inefficient regulations may then be curbed.

    There’s people like me that don’t like to see huge profits made by some companies. However, even people like me know that things aren’t going to get done without adequate incentives. Heat and electricity from molten salt will mean less product consumed in the process. It should mean less environmental controls will be required as less of the product needs to be burned. I believe it will create a spinoff industry to sell these reactors and make more profit for the oil companies. Unlike mass sales of petroleum, this will be a forever product.

  8. Has Natura said how they plan on getting the enriched lithium for future reactors? It’s my understanding that this reactor will use the original salt from the MSRE experiments, which is great, but doesn’t pave a path for future reactors. The US has no lithium enrichment currently and the primary method was made illegal in the 60s. There are much better paths now days, but someone needs to build the plant and build it to higher specifications than the current lithium enrichment for PWRs reaches.

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