101 Comments

  1. I’m suprised you ask that question, Rod.

    As if Israel’s hasbarists don’t have enough to do, but now you’re asking them to justify purposely keeping the Palestinians in abject poverty while harvesting the riches of a massive oil find. Better to keep things low key, continue expanding the settlements, and keep this find as under the radar as possible. Meanwhile, periodically exterminate a few thousand more of them through massive collective punishment military aggressions. Sooner or later, they’ll have all the land, all the oil, and the Palestinians will just be a dim memory.

  2. @Ed Leaver

    Interesting link. Thanks for posting it. However, a story in Al Jazeera hardly qualifies as “all over the news.” It also was well before the drilling achieved an apparent success with the discovery of a potentially large resource.

  3. To Rod Adams,

    True, the major US news outlets haven’s discussed the implications of the huge oil discovery in the Golan Heights.
    But what stops you from writing what is your opinion about what those implications might be ?
    Are you embarrassed to write what are your opinions ?

  4. @Peter Corcoruto

    Not embarrassed. Quite frankly, I’m a little concerned about safety and security if I make my guesses too clear at this point. I feel safer instigating a broader conversation than tossing rhetorical grenades right now. The interests involved are aggressive about defending their turf.

  5. That’s right, Rod ! You feel safer not writing anything against Israel . Because the Israelis, and the management of Genie Energy will be aggressive about defending their turf. By the way, do you know why it really is their turf ?
    Because the Golan Heights have been occupied by Israel in 1967, in a defensive war.
    Any territory occupied in a defensive war, can be legally kept !
    That’s why Israel was 100% right in annexing the Golan Height in 1981.
    You see, when I write all that, unlike yourself, I don’t feel the need to “feel safer”.
    You know why ? Because I am on the side that is morally right.

  6. I suppose the hasbarists are writing for Wikipedia. – “International aid has played a major role in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict as it has been used as a means to keep the peace process going.[1] Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.[2] Aid has been offered to the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) and other Palestinian Non-governmental organizations (PNGOs) by the international community, including International Non-governmental Organizations (INGOs).”
    Wiki does not explain why the Palestinians are living in abject poverty with all of that aid pouring in though. Perhaps it could be that twice that amount is spent on missiles and concrete for sneak attack tunnels rather than lifting them out of abject poverty.

  7. @Rod

    Because the Arabs were clearly the aggressors, nowhere in UN Security Council
    Resolutions 242 or 338 – the cornerstones of a peace settlement – is Israel
    branded as an invader or occupier of the Territories and there is no call for Israel
    to withdraw from all the Territories.
    Resolutions 242 and 338 both rest on the concept of lawful occupations.

    Let me gently whisper in your ear: we (the Jews) are the ones that teach you law and morality, not the other way around. You know why ? Because we have invented morality (the Bible, the 10 Commandments, remember ?).

  8. The Palestinians have a royal role model to emulate it they put put their self-consuming hangs aside; One of the best examples of a “exiled” people turning a bitter lemon into lucrative lemonade via hard work and vision is the republic of Taiwan.

    James Greenidge
    Queens NY

  9. @Peter Corcoruto

    You did not address the question of taking natural resources from occupied territory.

    There is a difference in deciding that territory needs to remain occupied to ensure defensible borders and extracting (stealing) non-renewable resources from under the ground of occupied territory. It is possible that such action can be justified in a public discussion, but somehow I doubt the highly connected advisory board wants that to happen. It might begin to make people wonder exactly why there is so much propaganda being pushed to ensure that “everyone” agrees that the Syrian regime must be changed — without any real plant for who should take over once Assad is deposed.

    Dictatorships might be bad, but history shows that anarchy can be even more dangerous.

    Have you read, by the way, Timothy Snyder’s recently released Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning?

    It provides rarely discussed material about the reasons there were so many murders in Eastern Europe, outside of German territorial boarders and often by people who were not Germans.

  10. @Rod

    I did address the question of “taking natural resources from occupied territory”:
    The Golan Heights belongs legally to Israel as a result of a defensive war, so it is not “occupied territory”. As simple as that.
    No, I didn’t read Tommy Snyder’s book.

  11. “Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world”

    During Fiscal Year 2014, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $10.2 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians.

    Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1.

    The Israeli unemployment rate is 6%, while the Palestinian unemployment in the West Bank is 16% and 45% in Gaza.

    0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and at least 28,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.

  12. “Perhaps it could be that twice that amount is spent on missiles and concrete for sneak attack tunnels rather than lifting them out of abject poverty”

    You made that up. Its what you have to do to justify and rationalize Israel’s actions. Quite frankly, its called a “lie” when you make stuff up in order to prevail in a debate or discussion. So, if you do not want to be exposed as a liar, all you need do is provide a reputable source for your assertion, that gives us figures, amounts, that justify your assertions. Your “perhaps” doesn’t cut it. Your intent is clear. And, btw, wiki is hardly a reputable source, considering how information is posted there.

    There can be no more despicable an endeavor than to use subterfuge and questionable sourcing to rationalize and justify what is happening to the Palestinians.

  13. The Syrian Golan Heights (as the UN refers to the region) was recognized as Syrian sovereign territory by an Armistice Agreement signed between Israel and Syria under UN auspices in 1949. Because of its rich volcanic soils and water resources, the Golan has long been coveted by Zionists. Attempts were made starting in 1891 to buy land there, and Zionist President Chaim Weizmann wrote to British Prime Minister Lloyd George in 1919 expressing designs for the region to form part of the Jewish National Home in Palestine. (Dr Weizmann wrote to oppose the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916 by which Britain and France had agreed the carve up of the Ottoman Empire after the World War I. These imperial designs interfered with Zionist schemes for the Levant.)

    Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter requires the respect of every state’s territorial integrity. Newly admitted to the UN in 1949, Israel began almost immediately to encroach beyond its boundaries as agreed under the 1949 Armistice. Fortifications were built in the UN-administered demilitarized zone, while illegally deployed Israeli soldiers obstructed UN observers and even threatened to kill them on one occasion. Arab residents of the area were evicted and their homes looted and destroyed. The UN Security Council (UNSC) passed a resolution in May 1951 demanding that Israel allow the residents to return. Other resolutions against Israeli violations of international law followed in 1953, 1956 and 1962, all to no avail.

    Prior to the 1967 invasion there were many clashes between Syrian and Israel forces. The former Israeli defence minister, Moshe Dayan, later opined that more 80 per cent of these clashes were deliberately provoked by Israel, explaining that kibbutzim covetous of Syrian land had pressed the Israeli government to invade the Golan Heights. Another Israeli, Mattityahu Peled, who served as a member of the General Staff during the 1967 war, also stated in a newspaper interview that all the incidents were Israeli initiated.

    At the time of the invasion during the 1967 war there were 137,000 Arab residents in the area that was occupied. Following the attack, 130,000 of them were expelled from their homes in two cities, 130 villages and 112 farms, all of which were destroyed. (The Golan capital of Quneitra had been a city with 25,000 population. When liberated by Syrian armour in 1973, troops discovered all the buildings destroyed or uninhabitable. This included houses, shops, mosques and the hospital.)

     Resolution 242 of 1967 requiring “withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict” was ignored by Israel. On 14 December 1981 the Knesset passed the Golan Heights Law, which extended Israeli laws to occupied Syrian areas. The UN Security Council responded to this breach of customary international law by passing Resolution 497 declaring the Israeli legislation “null and void and without international legal effect”. The resolution demanded that the legislation be rescinded. No other country has recognized this de facto annexation, but Israel made no attempt to comply with its legal obligations.

    USNC  Resolution 242 of 1967 requiring “withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict” was ignored by Israel. On 14 December 1981 the Knesset passed the Golan Heights Law, which extended Israeli laws to occupied Syrian areas. The UN Security Council responded to this breach of customary international law by passing Resolution 497 declaring the Israeli legislation “null and void and without international legal effect”. The resolution demanded that the legislation be rescinded. No other country has recognized this de facto annexation, but Israel made no attempt to comply with its legal obligations.

    continues….

    http://mycatbirdseat.com/2011/06/breaches-of-international-law-lay-behind-unrest-on-golan-heights/

    Any assertion in the above excerpt can be checked, and verified. Rod, read this thread, and you will have a true concept of what “hasbarists” do, and the twisting of history that they will engage in to do it.

    And do not make the mistake of thinking hasbara is just a casual way of justifying Israel’s actions. Hasbara is a state sponsored endeavor, with actual manuals and tutorials, even engaging college students in the dissemination of Israeli propaganda.

  14. Let me gently whisper in your ear: we (the Jews) are the ones that teach you law and morality, not the other way around. You know why ? Because we [the Jews] have invented morality (the Bible, the 10 Commandments, remember ?).

    Oh please, next thing you’ll be telling us that you (the Jews) invented immorality (the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah, remember ?). Related to Al Gore perhaps?

  15. Golan Heights Oil/Gas:
    Good morning Rod. Most of your nuclear experience has been in US subs, but I want you to visualize where the Golan Heights is in Yisrael.
    On the north side of the Golan is Lebanon. Due east of the Golan is Syria, and on the southeast of Golan is Yardan (Jordan).
    The only water immediately available is the Kinneret, the Sea of Gallilee, with it’s 4 mile by 14 miles of the lake, being feed from Mount Herman, where the two rivers, the Yar and the Dan combine to form the Yardan (Jordan).
    Water is a necessary tool for fracking, but this particular body of water is the very life blood supply of the country Yisrael. Conservatively, this body of water, plus the Yardan, supply enough water to produce 2 or 3 crops of vegetables and fruits for 26% of the Middle East consumption.
    The down side is the Salt Lake, or the Dead Sea. Because of the use of water ahead of the Dead Sea, the Dead Sea coastlines have retracted over 1 1/2 miles, and the salinity of the Dead Sea has increased dramatically.
    Yes, although the new Haifa oil/gas field is now in production, off the Med coast of Haifa, the exploratory fields in the Golan, would both tap and harvest the precious Yisraeli aquifiers to become productive.
    But no one is Yisrael or the other 3 countries, have argued about the possible new Golan fields.
    If Lebanon or Syria or even Jordan decided to “Horizontal drill” to these fields, Yisrael would probably not object UNLESS the water being used was from the Yisraeli aquifiers, or the Yardan river.
    So at this point in time, everyone is remaining silent, BUT thinking about the future.

  16. @Peter Corcoruto

    The rest of the world does not recognize the Israeli law that claimed the Golan Heights as being part of Israel.

    It’s Timothy Snyder, not Tommy.

    Please do not attempt to claim to be the source of all morality and legality. It’s a very large world out there with many different kinds of people. All have the right to exist; none have the right to dominate and destroy.

  17. @Nick

    Thank you for the geography lesson. Though I did spend a fair amount of time underwater, it has been 25 years since my last patrol. I’ve done a little traveling and learning since then.

    Horizontal drilling is limited, by the way to a few miles at most. The longest horizontal I’ve read about is 20,000 feet, or less than 4 miles.

    As you point out, if the reservoir requires fracking, it might be quite risky to extract oil and gas there. Fresh water is a precious resource worth protecting no matter where it is, but in the regions around the Golan Heights it is especially rare and valuable.

  18. “Let me gently whisper in your ear: we (the Jews) are the ones that teach you law and morality, not the other way around. You know why ? Because we have invented morality (the Bible, the 10 Commandments, remember ?)”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti

    When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench.

    He picked through the wreckage of his possessions thrown from upstairs windows to find that the departing troops had left a number of messages. One came from piles of faeces on his tiled floors and in wastepaper baskets, and a plastic bottle filled with urine.

    If that was not clear enough, the words “Fuck Hamas” had been carved into a concrete wall in the staircase. “Burn Gazadown” and “Good Arab = dead Arab” were engraved on a coffee table. The star of David was drawn in blue in a bedroom.

    Continues….

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/someone-even-managed-to-defecate-into-the-photocopier-1.46032?v=E656C06A58A6007E28161A4188561665

    But what awaited them was beyond all their fears, and also shocked representatives and cultural attaches of foreign consulates, who toured the site the next day.

    In other offices, all the high-tech and electronic equipment had been wrecked or had vanished – computers, photocopiers, cameras, scanners, hard disks, editing equipment worth thousands of dollars, television sets. The broadcast antenna on top of the building was destroyed.

    Telephone sets vanished. A collection of Palestinian art objects (mostly hand embroideries) disappeared. Perhaps it was buried under the piles of documents and furniture, perhaps it had been spirited away. Furniture was dragged from place to place, broken by soldiers, piled up. Gas stoves for heating were overturned and thrown on heaps of scattered papers, discarded books, broken diskettes and discs and smashed windowpanes.

    In the department for the encouragement of children’s art, the soldiers had dirtied all the walls with gouache paints they found there and destroyed the children’s paintings that hung there.

    In every room of the various departments – literature, film, culture for children and youth books, discs, pamphlets and documents were piled up, soiled with urine and excrement.

    There are two toilets on every floor, but the soldiers urinated and defecated everywhere else in the building, in several rooms of which they had lived for about a month. They did their business on the floors, in emptied flowerpots, even in drawers they had pulled out of desks.

    They defecated into plastic bags, and these were scattered in several places. Some of them had burst. Someone even managed to defecate into a photocopier.

    The soldiers urinated into empty mineral water bottles. These were scattered by the dozen in all the rooms of the building, in cardboard boxes, among the piles of rubbish and rubble, on desks, under desks, next to the furniture the solders had smashed, among the children’s books that had been thrown down.

    Some of the bottles had opened and the yellow liquid had spilled and left its stain. It was especially difficult to enter two floors of the building because of the pungent stench of feces and urine. Soiled toilet paper was also scattered everywhere.

    In some of the rooms, not far from the heaps of feces and the toilet paper, remains of rotting food were scattered. In one corner, in the room in which someone had defecated into a drawer, full cartons of fruits and vegetables had been left behind. The toilets were left overflowing with bottles filled with urine, feces and toilet paper.

    Relative to other places, the soldiers did not leave behind them many sayings scrawled on the walls.

    Here and there was the candelabrum symbols of Israel, stars of David, praises for the Jerusalem Betar soccer team.

    Someone had forgotten to take his dog tag with him. His name is recorded in the newspaper’s editorial offices.

    Now the Palestinian Ministry of Culture is considering leaving the building the way it is. A memorial.

    No response was available from the IDF by press time.

  19. I’m someone who is Jewish-American and I detest what Israel is and has become. There is nothing legal about ANY of Israel’s occupation other than it’s recognized by some Western countries historically allied to Israel. Israel is clearly an Apartheid state and it’s historic plans to grab, for example, the water from the Lani river in Lebanon (Ben Gurion’s support for a ‘Great Isreal’) is well known…interestingly…something that will now never occur because Hezbeollah’s ruling all of southern Lebanon and sending Israel’s troops packing the last time they tried invading.

    That they are stealing Syria’s oil or plan too should not come as a surprise to anyone. I should add, parenthetically, that Kuwait before 1992 invasion by Iraq was also slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields, further provoking the crazy Saddam Hussein. The US OK’d this as it was playing the different countries against each other.

  20. ‘I’m someone who is Jewish-American and I detest what Israel is and has become’

    Thank you David. If you read Peter’s hasbara, above, you can’t help but notice that he presumes to be a spokesman for all jews. Netanyahu, as well, has adopted this manner of presumptive rhetoric. As more and more people within the global community become aware of Israel’s crimes against humanity, theft of land and resources, and policy of collective military punishment against the Palestinian people, such presumptive rhetoric can only increase anti-semitism, particularly in the middle east. Netanyahu would have us believe that it is not instituting Israeli governmental policies, but rather policies condoned and sanctioned by the international jewish community as well. I know from my own sphere of friends and acquaintances that this is not the case, and many jews, such as yourself, do not condone or agree with what Israel is doing. Americans for Peace Now, the BDS movement, etc, is comprised of many jews with a moral conscience. Peter’s arrogance, displayed so unabashedly, epitomizes the current right wing radical government in Israel, with ever increasingly racist jewish radicals being appointed to positions of high power within Netanyahu’s governing body. God bless the jews, like yourself, who speak up against Israel’s current trajectory.

  21. @Rod

    You wrote: “The rest of the world does not recognize the Israeli law that claimed the Golan Heights as being part of Israel.”
    Hmm…
    Since you seem to have an IQ that is above the average in the US (in Israel it would be below the average), you should be able to understand that if the US is legal in California, then Israel is even more legal in the Golan Heights.
    You know why ? Because California became part of the US following the American-Mexican 1846-1848 war, a war initiated by the US. You got that ?

  22. Rod…..this is the part of the discussion when Peter shifts the topic from Israel’s current behaviour, to America’s past behaviour. Never fails. When confronted with direct factual rebuttal to their initial line of dishonest crap, they always resort to the tactic Peter is now employing…. “Well, you guys slaughtered the indians and stole their land…blablablah” or some such variant of that kind of deflection. As if our past transgressions somehow justify Israel’s current crimes and abuses of power.

    Gosh, where is our troll patrol when the real deal makes an appearance?

  23. “Are all hasbarists as obnoxiously vain as Peter?”

    No. Absolutely not. Peter’s claims are so easily discounted, and his persona so gratingly obnoxious, that I don’t know what to think of his appearance here. Its almost as though he’s doing a charade meant to discredit jews or Israelis.

    Usually, the obvious Israeli hasbarists, such as “hophmi”, (at mondowiess, read his posts), are callously indifferent to Palestinian suffering, completely unable to admit any wrongs on the part of Israelis, but far more careful about how they frame the “facts” they offer, and their perversions of history a bit more difficult to unravel.

    Its almost as though Peter is satirizing the efforts of one truly engaged in serious hasbara. Regardless, again, I find it interesting that a couple of regulars here stand quiet as Peter trolls your blog, presenting ludicrously false argument.

    On a more serious note, the invlolvement of Dr. Lawrence Summers, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Mary Landrieu and R. James Woolsey, Richard Cheney, K. Rupert Murdoch, Lord Jacob Rothschild, and Michael Steinhardt in this particular chapter of Israel’s crimes tells us much about the character of these individuals. As I’ve opined here before, Dick Cheney can only be described as “evil”, and the participation of evil in this oil endeavor says it all.

  24. “Are all hasbarists as obnoxiously vain as Peter?”

    This is my second reply to your question, Rod. I hope the first one appears as well.

    Examine the comment posted by “rich”. He poses a reasonable question, while offering an unreasonable answer. His argument is far harder to rebut, and is very difficult to rebut without lengthy explanation, and some fairly extensive knowledge about the Palestinian/Israeli foreign aid situation. His zinger is that last part, where he offers a simple and fraudulent answer to a very complex question.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am not accusing rich of employing hasbara. He may just be a product of our media, for he has offered a media scripted argument, designed to influence those with neither the time nor the desire to do the depth of digging to discount his argument. Call it media induced ignorance. Then again, he may possibly be aware of how disingenuous his argument is with its misleading simplicity. I simply don’t know. And that is how a serious hasbarist would roll.

  25. @Rod

    You wrote: “…but I’m enjoying the learning experience”.
    Thanks for having admitted that you are on a learning curve !
    Since your IQ is relatively high, maybe you will like this one:

    Do you know why the Jews are unique and eternal ?
    In order to subtly remind you that G-d (Blessed Be He) is unique and eternal, exactly like His Chosen People – the Jews.

  26. “Do you know why the Jews are unique and eternal ?
    In order to subtly remind you that G-d (Blessed Be He) is unique and eternal, exactly like His Chosen People – the Jews.”

    The statement kind of reminds me of those quotes you see from the Quran. Interesting.

  27. @ Peter Corcoruto

    “…we (the Jews) are the ones that teach you law and morality, not the other way around.”

    and “…subtly remind you that G-d (Blessed Be He) is unique and eternal, exactly like His Chosen People – the Jews.”

    Peter, I am a very strong supporter of Israel and when folks make claims that Israel is an apartheid state without comparison to life in Muslim lands, it is disingenuous. However, your statements like the ones above are NOT helping your cause and indeed will do just the reverse.

  28. “Peter, I am a very strong supporter of Israel and when folks make claims that Israel is an apartheid state without comparison to life in Muslim lands, it is disingenuous”

    “Life in muslim lands” is irrelevent as to whether or not Israel is an apartheid state. I invite you to check any dictionary, of your choice, and tell us why the term “apartheid” does not apply to Israel. Here is one such definition….

    apartheid (noun)

    The policy or practice of political, legal, economic, or social discrimination, as against the members of a minority group

    In every sense of the word, Israel has become an apartheid state. What is truly disingenuous, is denying it.

  29. “However, your statements like the ones above are NOT helping your cause and indeed will do just the reverse”

    So David, do you really think Peter’s mindset is unique?

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/facing-hecklers-gideon

    Excerpt:

    Levy says that Jewish Israelis have been able to live happily with occupation because of three deeprooted beliefs/blindnesses: One, we are the chosen people, we can do anything we want, and international law doesn’t apply to us. Two, we the Jews are the biggest victim in history and the only victim in history. Golda Meir said after the  Holocaust Jews have the right to do whatever we want. And third, that Palestinians are not exactly human beings. “Killing Palestinians is not really a violation of human rights.”

    Now even Israeli Jewish society is threatened by “one lynch after another, day after day.” Scenes that he had never thought even imaginable are occurring.

    He says emphatically that Israel is practicing apartheid in its occupied territories:

    If two peoples share one piece of land and one people gets all the rights in the world, and the other people don’t get any rights, this is apartheid. No other way to call it. No other way to call it!

  30. Do you know why the Jews are unique and eternal ?
    In order to subtly remind you that G-d (Blessed Be He) is unique and eternal, exactly like His Chosen People – the Jews.

    Ah, the superior race … where have we seen that mindset before and what happened as a result?

  31. Roughly the same thing that happened in the Ukraine only a couple of decades before, but in the Ukraine it was orchestrated by the same people who are now claiming eternal victim status.

  32. @david davison

    In my analysis, the human rights problems in “Muslim lands” are rarely, if ever, a result of the religion. They are the result of the dictatorial, autocratic, political system where a tiny elite controls the resources of the entire country.

    In some places like Saudi Arabia, religion is used as a tool in the same way that it was used as a tool in Europe when most countries were monarchies and established state religions that emphasized “the divine right of kings.” It is one of the ways, in addition to guns, control of education, and control over most resources in which hereditary aristocrats keep “the masses” subservient and less likely to revolt against the injustice of vast gulfs between the privileged few and everyone else.

    There is nothing inherently evil in the Islamic faith, but there is certainly something evil about the way that some evil people manipulate it and use it to elevate themselves while suppressing others.

  33. @Rod

    Even though you have created this website called “atomicinsights”, my analysis tells me that you are probably unaware that the only reason the US is a nuclear power is the work of the 100% Jewish team of scientists that worked in the “Manhattan Project” at Los-Alamos, in World War 2 (from 1942 to 1945):
    Robert Oppenheimer (the head of the Project), Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard, Edward Teller (he later in 1952 developed the Hydrogen Bomb), Niels Bohr (narrowly escaped Denmark in 1943 pursued by the Nazis), Richard Feynman, Lise Meitner, Otto Frisch, Felix Bloch, Rudolph Peierls, Joseph Rotblat, etc, etc. They all spoke more Yiddish than English.

  34. My reply is so far away from the post I reacted to, that the connection may be lost.

    I reacted to Corcoruto’s: – Because we have invented morality –

  35. @Peter

    I’m well aware of the history and the important contributions made by Jewish scientists. It was, however, hardly a 100% Jewish team. Fermi, Groves, Chadwick, Compton, Lawrence, etc, etc were not Jews (though Laura Fermi was.)

    As poa and David Davison have stated, you are not doing your cause any favors with your inaccurate vanity. There are no “chosen people”, “master race”, or “divine kings” on this planet. We’re all just people and have the same inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

  36. @Twominds

    That is why almost all of my comments begin with an @username. The out of the box wordpress commenting system does not have very sophisticated threading capabilities. (Preventing too many layers of indenting also helps the mobile display version.)

  37. P. Corocoruto:

    I recall Arthur Clarke mentioning to Tom Synder on NBC that like Goddard in rocketry here without the need for a von Braun to develop space rockets, that the U.S wasn’t wanting for homegrown scientists who also could’ve developed a pre-WWII reactor or a bomb were the foresight and proirity there to do so.

    James Greenidge
    Queens NY

  38. David Davidson…….

    Of course Peter’s exceptionalistic vanity is offensive. We both can agree on that. However, as one who has participated for some time now on blogs that address the Palestinian/Israeli issue, I can assure you that his smug arrogance is not unique to the Israeli religious and political right. You can find the same arrogance and exceptionalism in Netanyahu’s orations, although he is, (barely), a bit more diplomatic in how he expresses this sense of superiority and entitlement.

    But the real gist of Peter’s hasbara is his misrepresentation of history. How do you feel about that? Do you entertain the same thoughts in regards to the Golan Heights? Would you consider his historical “facts” honest, or presented disingenuously? If you disagree with his historical presentation, disregarding his attitude, don’t you think his false presentation deserves more notice than his despicable attitude?

    But, as long as you brought up this arrogance, (that you think is harmful to “the cause”), I’m curious how you feel about Israel’s freshly appointed Justice Minister, (Ayelet Shaked), calling for the murder of Palestinian mothers, so they don’t give birth to more “little snakes”?

    More importantly, how do you feel about Netanyahu appointing a Justice Minister that is so openly racist?

    As a staunch supporter of Israel, expressing criticism of Peter’s not so unique claims of jewish superiority does not really explain your support. There are far more egregious issues here than Peter’s clumsy and offensive attempts to offer hasbara.

    I feel that I have offered reasonable questions. It has been my experience that raising reasonable questions on this topic is usually rebutted with accusations of anti-semitism. I suspect thats because reasonable questions about Israel’s behaviour cannot be rebutted with reasonable answers. So here’s your opportunity. Which course will you take?

  39. @ POA

    “Life in muslim lands” is irrelevent as to whether or not Israel is an apartheid state.”

    Irrelevant to YOU and those only interested in meeting dictionary definitions. But to those who desire a more robust understanding of the relative merits of the respective peoples, it is ABSOLUTELY relevant. Only the myopic can complain about the unequal relationship between Israeli citizens and those who refuse to even recognize their right to exist and indeed, are promoting their utter destruction. Meanwhile, apartheid has been the status quo in Muslim lands since Muhammad personally beheaded between 500 and 800 Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe.

    Again I ask, if Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, what should Israel, in the face of continual aggression, do to not only survive, but live in peace?

  40. I feel like the conversation might be getting a little far afield from the topic of peaceful nuclear energy.

  41. @ POA

    “And third, that Palestinians are not exactly human beings. “Killing Palestinians is not really a violation of human rights.”

    Do regale us with all the sermons by Muslim Imams extolling the virtues of the Jewish people and how they would love to live in harmony with them.

  42. @ Rod

    That’s one of the things I like about you Rod, you’re optimistic, desiring to see the best in all things.
    Although you expressed some general principles which certainly hold true in many situations and are even true to some extent in Muslim lands, ignoring Dhimmi status and the paying of the jizzia in Muslim lands undercuts your whole premise. In Muslim courts, a non-Muslim is ALWAYS at a disadvantage. Non Muslim men cannot marry Muslim women and non Muslims must endure a lot more confining bureaucracy. Those of other faiths experience persecution by the people around them as well as the state. Try building a church in Saudi Arabia or what happens to an individual who leads a Muslim from the Islamic faith? It is a thousand cuts in the daily life of an ordinary peasant that have nothing to do with the ruler maintaining his/their position of power that demonstrate that religion in Islamic lands is the supreme reason for the “human rights problems” non Muslims face.

    “There is nothing inherently evil in the Islamic faith…”

    It is just a fantastic coincidence that Islam begets violence like offal draws flies. And what of all those verses Muslims take seriously that command them to destroy the unbelievers and reduce “people of the book” to Dhimmi status?

  43. @ POA

    “In the department for the encouragement of children’s art…”

    Is this where the children learned the art of donning a suicide vest?

  44. @ POA

    Israelis accepted the UN’s plan for the partition of Palestine, the Arabs did not, exercising their singular inability to compromise. Jerusalem, was, as I recall, to become an international city, much to the chagrin of the Jews, but they accepted the plan, the Arabs chose war.

    Farm land in the Golan Heights was the objective of Israelis? So it had nothing to do with the constant shelling Israeli farms experienced from these heights until they were taken during Syria’s war of aggression?

    “In the period between the first Arab-Israeli War and the Six-Day War, the Syrians constantly harassed Israeli border communities by firing artillery shells from their dominant positions on the Golan Heights.[80][81] In October 1966 Israel brought the matter up before the United Nations. Five nations sponsored a resolution criticizing Syria for its actions but it failed to pass due to a Soviet veto.[82][83][84]”

    In 1976, Israeli defense minister Moshe Dayan said that Israel provoked more than 80% of the clashes with Syria, although historians say the remark was part of an informal conversation.[87] The provocation was sending a tractor to plow in the demilitarized areas. The Syrians responded by firing at the tractors and shelling Israeli settlements.[88][89]

    The Druze living in the Golan Heights are permanent residents of Israel. They hold laissez-passers issued by the Israeli government, and enjoy the country’s social welfare benefits.[148] The pro-Israeli Druze were historically ostracized by the pro-Syrian Druze.[149] Reluctance to accept citizenship also reflects fear of ill treatment or displacement by Syrian authorities should the Golan Heights eventually be returned to Syria.[150] According to The Independent, most Druze in the Golan Heights live relatively comfortable lives in a freer society than they would have in Syria under Assad’s government.[151] According to Egypt’s Daily Star, their standard of living vastly surpasses that of their counterparts on the Syrian side of the border. Hence their fear of a return to Syria, though most of them identify themselves as Syrian,[152] but feel alienated from the “autocratic” government in Damascus. According to the Associated Press, “many young Druse have been quietly relieved at the failure of previous Syrian-Israeli peace talks to go forward.” Ties to Syria are on the wane, and many have come to appreciate aspects of Israel’s liberal democratic society, although few risk saying so publicly for fear of Syrian retribution.[153]”

    From 1920 and the Nebi Musa riots:

    On 7 and 8 March, demonstrations took place in all cities of Palestine, shops were closed and many Jews were attacked. Attackers carried slogans such as “Death to Jews” or “Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs!”[8]

    In the absence of any Palestinians here on the blog (that I’m aware of), the above can suffice for the Palestinian attitude toward Jews circa 1920 though I see no evidence that this attitude has changed.

  45. @ POA

    Israel should keep the Golan Heights. If and when Syria, with or without Bashar al Assad, convinces Israel that her security is not threatened by the return of the Golan, Israel can negotiate (there have been attempts in the past) said return. Discovery of oil there will make that reality a vanishing proposal.

    Given the words and attitudes of Palestinian leaders, I’m unconcerned with disparaging comments by Israeli cabinet members. What is germane is that the possibility of peace resides predominately with the Palestinians and surrounding Arab states. Israel has demonstrated a willingness to trade land for peace and with the notable exception of Egypt (which cost Sadat his life), it hasn’t worked. I would support a two state solution but the Palestinian state must not have an army for some specified period of time…time for them to demonstrate their willingness to accept the status quo.

    “I feel that I have offered reasonable questions.”

    You have. It is a complicated situation and as you’ve discovered, most folks are not willing to invest the time it takes to research the answers, AND, not every question needs to be “rebutted”. There is not one wholly innocent and one wholly guilty party here. I’m out of time…graveyard shift is beckoning me.

  46. I recall a cartoon with two boys in kaffiyes sitting on a street, with one asking the other, “What do you want to be when you blow up?”

    The average IQ of Arab countries is 84, likely due to intense inbreeding depression (father’s brother’s daughter marriage keeping property in the immediate family… and loyalties too).  That basic inferiority, combined with the Koranic insistence that Arabs are the best of peoples, can only engender rage.  But the rage should be directed at themselves, for letting themselves get into both a religious and genetic trap.  Even the de-islamifying programs of Ataturk were swept away, as we can see today.

  47. @Rod,

    I don’t have any “cause”. I came to this website to tutor. That’s what Jewish people do for the last 3500 years: teach and create civilization, while the Jew-haters continue bitching.
    Talking about pursuit of happiness: I own an obscene quantity of Genie Energy stocks, bought at an average price of 9.33 US $. The stock price right now is 12.80 US $, while in maximum one year from today the price will be 3511 US $ (calculated with my blessed 160 IQ). At that point in time I will stop being a self-made millionaire, and I will become a multi-millionaire. All that, while all your Jew-hating friends (like poa for example) will continue bitching.

  48. @Peter

    You are convincing me that you are a parody who really does not like the Jewish people very much.

    FYI, I grew up in Southeast Florida. Based on many personal experiences and friendships, I have a much higher opinion of the Jews and their humanity (and humility) that you apparently do.

  49. David, will you please source your information.

    And for all practical purposes, who cares what happened in 1920? Today, right now, I can link to video of Israelis marching in the streets chanting “death to arabs”. Can you find me a video of marching Palestinians chanting “death to jews”? I strongly doubt it.

  50. “Irrelevant to YOU and those only interested in meeting dictionary definitions. But to those who desire a more robust understanding of the relative merits of the respective peoples, it is ABSOLUTELY relevant”

    Except we are not talking about the “relative merits” of the Palestinians or the Israelis. We are talking about whether or not Israel is an apartheid state.

    And you are arguing that the meaning of “apartheid” is irrelevant.

    Huh? On whose planet?

    “Again I ask, if Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, what should Israel, in the face of continual aggression, do to not only survive, but live in peace?”

    One of the most powerful militaries on the planet is faced with bottle rockets and stones, by a people who have been under a brutal occupation for many decades. Tell me, David, do the Palestinians have a right to exist and to defend themselves?

  51. “Do regale us with all the sermons by Muslim Imams extolling the virtues of the Jewish people and how they would love to live in harmony with them”

    David, we are talking about Israel’s actual treatment of the Palestinians. Or does that topic present some challenges you aren’t willing to address?

  52. “Given the words and attitudes of Palestinian leaders, I’m unconcerned with disparaging comments by Israeli cabinet members”

    Calling for the murder of Palestinian mothers so they cannot give birth to more “little snakes” is a bit beyond a “disparaging comment”. The fact that you can so casually dismiss such a racist comment, by an important and powerful member of Netanyahu’s cabinet suprises me. I guess it will be ok with you if our next attorney general advocates killing negro mothers so they don’t give birth to any more little apes, eh?

  53. Touche, Rod. It never ceases to amaze me when someone completely lacking in integrity and intelligence goes to such pains to demonstrate it.

  54. “The average IQ of Arab countries is 84”

    Will you source that “fact”, EP?

    Somehow I doubt it.

  55. who cares what happened in 1920?

    People care when the same beliefs are motivating people today.  Which they’ve been doing since the 7th century AD.  Wake up!

  56. @E-P

    I’m disappointed in you. Are you now sourcing your facts from sites that would have apparently been comfortable during the time when eugenicists were respected?

    For many of the Jews that I know, respect and love, the whole topic of eugenics and races is extremely painful and brings up horrifying thoughts about actions taking in their name.

  57. “Wake up”.

    I am awake. And with my eyes open, I recognize a racist bigot when I see one.

    I have nothing more to say to you. Tonight, or from here on. Shame on you.

  58. “Is this where the children learned the art of donning a suicide vest?”

    Its amazing to me that you can read what these IDF soldiers did, and in return, produce such a comment. Perhaps you’ll provide us with an instance of a Palestinian child donning a suicide vest in the last few decades.

    Frankly, you, Peter, and EP have revealed much about yourselves on this thread. I don’t work a graveyard shift, so necessity does not mandate that I end my participation on this thread. However, my disgust does.

  59. “I feel like the conversation might be getting a little far afield from the topic of peaceful nuclear energy”

    The topic of this thread is not nuclear energy. It is why the media would be silent, or nearly so, about this oil find. And those defending Israel are providing us with some pretty clear answers to that question.

  60. Can you find me a video of marching Palestinians chanting “death to jews”?

    They’ve outsourced it to the Europeans. Blame the Global Economy.

  61. I’m disappointed in you. Are you now sourcing your facts from sites that would have apparently been comfortable during the time when eugenicists were respected?

    Rod – Just because eugenics is associated with truly horrendous acts, that doesn’t mean that everything that eugenicists discovered, claimed, or said is incorrect.

    Most of the prominent eugenicists at the time were Progressives — what would today be called Liberals. Take, for example, John Maynard Keynes and Woodrow Wilson.

  62. @Brian Mays

    People who were interested in eugenics may have had other interests and characteristics that were admirable. However, I have a visceral dislike of everything I’ve learned about the eugenics movement itself. The notions were flawed from a scientific point of view. The conclusions and actions taken as a result of those flawed studies were all distasteful. Some were immoral, others were downright evil.

  63. I’m disappointed in you. Are you now sourcing your facts from sites that would have apparently been comfortable during the time when eugenicists were respected?

    Attacking the messenger doesn’t refute the facts.  I could have referred you to this table of average IQ scores by nation but your eyes would glaze over.  There shouldn’t be any controversy over e.g. the fact that all the nations with an average score of 100 or more are either European or E. Asian; these are simply facts.  Incidentally, the first Arab country I found on the list comes in at 87, and Turkey is well below par at 90.

    For many of the Jews that I know, respect and love, the whole topic of eugenics and races is extremely painful

    That’s hypocritical.  The ~15 point Ashkenazi IQ advantage over other Europeans arose from eugenics within the communities over perhaps 400 years, and a number of Jewish communities are essentially practicing eugenics today by e.g. giving the most social status and offspring to those men who are best at study of the Torah.  All personality traits are highly heritable and few associate with environment, as proven by adoption studies.  I suspect that the anti-eugenics line pushed by our elites has a much baser motivation:  they don’t want competition for their children (any more than they want competition for their highly profitable mineral assets).

    This won’t be controversial for much longer.  The genetics of intelligence are under intense study in China, where the subject is not only not taboo but a matter of national pride.  The same work is also going to tease out the genetic factors of other personality traits.  The taboo will fall when it no longer passes the laugh test; the moralistic fallacy confusing “is” vs. “ought” ultimately loses to reality.

    I guess I need to note explicitly that the whole push for “renewables” also arises from the moralistic fallacy:  people think that we “ought” to live closer to nature and draw everything from “natural” sources, so they try to force this into reality.  That’s not working either.

  64. “And what of all those verses Muslims take seriously that command them to destroy the unbelievers and reduce “people of the book” to Dhimmi status?”

    http://www.alternet.org/story/148016/how_to_kill_goyim_and_influence_people%3A_israeli_rabbis_defend_book's_shocking_religious_defense_of_killing_non-jews_(with_video)

    “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People: Israeli Rabbis Defend Book’s Shocking Religious Defense of Killing Non-Jews (with Video)”

    Excerpt…..

    As soon as it was published late last year,Torat Ha’Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when an Israelitabloid panned the book’s contents as “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew.” According to the book’s author, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, “Non-Jews are “uncompassionate by nature” and should be killed in order to “curb their evil inclinations.” “If we kill a gentile who has has violated one of the seven commandments… there is nothing wrong with the murder,” Shapira insisted. Citing Jewish law as his source (or at least a very selective interpretation of it) he declared: “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”

    Further excerpt….

    “Indeed, since the publication of Torat Ha’Melech, Netanyahu has strenuously avoided criticizing its contents or the author’s leading supporters”

    Further excerpt….

    “On August 18, a pantheon of Israel’s top fundamentalist rabbis flaunted their political power during an ad hoc congress they convened at Jerusalem’s Ramada Renaissance hotel. Before an audience of 250 supporters including the far-right Israeli Knesset member Michael Ben-Ari, the rabbis declared in the name of the Holy Torah that would not submit to any attempt by the government to regulate their political activities — even and especially if those activities included inciting terrorist attacks against non-Jews. As one wizened rabbi after another rose up to inveigh against the government’s investigation of Torat Ha’Melech until his voice grew hoarse, the gathering degenerated into calls for murdering not just non-Jews, but secular Jews as well.”

  65. @ POA

    “I recognize a racist bigot when I see one.”

    For one who whines about being called anti-semitic, you sure throw around the racism charge a lot.
    “Shame on you.”

  66. @ POA

    “Except we are not talking about the “relative merits” of the Palestinians or the Israelis. We are talking about whether or not Israel is an apartheid state.”

    Who is the WE? Do you have a turd in your pocket? You were replying to ME when I made the following statement:

    “…when folks make claims that Israel is an apartheid state without comparison to life in Muslim lands, it is disingenuous.”

    Finding fault with the necessary inequities of Israeli society without reviewing the far worse conditions in Muslim nations is to engage in selective outrage. Given these conditions and considering your crusade against Israel, it is understandable why you wish to avoid such comparisons.

    “One of the most powerful militaries on the planet is faced with bottle rockets and stones…”

    Oh really? So when Israel lost 420 tanks in a tank battle three times as large as El Alamein and 106 jets, this was all from rock throwing Palestinians?

    Considering my question as to Israel’s right to defend itself and your evasive answer, this is when “I invite you to check any dictionary, of your choice” as to the meaning of ‘obfuscation’.

    I’ll ask again, does Israel have the right to defend itself and what should Israel do vis a vis the Palestinians? A related question, where is the Palestinian responsibility to recognize Israel’s right to exist and to stop engaging in acts of terror?

  67. @ POA

    “Or does that topic present some challenges you aren’t willing to address?”

    You mean like the rash of Palestinian attacks on Israeli citizens? How many did they knife?

    “David, we are talking about Israel’s actual treatment of the Palestinians.”

    No, YOU are talking about it and in complete absence of any discussion of the terrorist activities of the Palestinians, rocket attacks, terror tunnels, etc. etc. etc.

  68. @ Peter Corcoruto

    “I came to this website to tutor.”

    I’m afraid those who love Israel cannot afford the type of tutoring you’re providing.

  69. @ Peter Corcoruto

    “I came to this website to tutor.”

    For those who love Israel, I’m not sure they can afford the type of tutoring you provide.

  70. “For one who whines about being called anti-semitic, you sure throw around the racism charge a lot”

    David, I’m quite comfortable with my arguments I’ve offered here, and with the way I view ALL of my fellow humans beings. I do not judge all jews by the actions of some jews. And I do not consider ANY race, religious following, or ethnic group as being “inferior”, as EP admits to believing.

    I do not lump all of Islam as being a blood thirsty hoard, all inclusive of any and all muslims, as you do in your comments.

    Worse, you casually dismiss an important israeli cabinet member’s advocation of genocide, and labeling of infant palestinians as being “little snakes”.

    I leave it to the readers here to find the bigotry, where they might, in this discussion.

  71. Rod….

    Note how the Golan Heights is pictured on this MSNBC map. I doubt its a simple mistake.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/check-msnbcs-palestinian

    Interesting thread, this one. Note that the three words “occupation” and “settlement expansion” are not in the language of those who go to such pains to act as though palestinian violence occurs due to racial proclivity rather than desperation.

    This thread, with Peter’s obnoxious expressions of superiority, EP’s unabashed claim of arab inferiority, and David’s casual acceptance of obscene IDF treatment of Palestinian properties and the call for genocide by the Israeli Justice Minister, truly underscores the deep racial bigotry required to defend and subsidize Israel’s crimes and human rights abuses.

    One wonders what will become of the Palestinian people, now that the two state solution is untenable. I suspect, soon, another excuse will be made to inflict huge damage to palestinian infrastructure, and massive palestinian casualties will once again be justified and celebrated by those such as I name above.

    Should we, as americans, find ourselves occupied and oppressed to the degree the palestinians are, what would we, as patriots, do? I know what I would do, and I’d hope I had the weapons and the missiles to do it. But, if not, I have a strong arm, and theres ammo on the dirt.

  72. To poa,

    In the Bible, in Genesis 12:2 and 12:3, God makes a Divine Promise to Abraham: “I will make your descendants a great nation, those that will bless your descendants shall be blessed, and those that will curse your descendants shall be cursed.”
    This Divine Promise is valid for people, and for countries . That’s why Canada looks the way it looks, while the Islamic countries look the way they look.

  73. Oh, I get it. God is simply punishing those nasty palestinians, and using the right wing jews to do it. So thats why the IDF shits in Palestinian homes and businesses? Boy, that sure clears the air!

  74. To poa

    Since you are now aware of the Divine Promise in Genesis 12:2 and 12:3, you should be ready to live with the consequences of your behaviour.

  75. To poa,

    That could mean for example: your business may go bankrupt, your health may deteriorate, a black cat might cross your path once per week, your friends might abandon you, you might not be able to find a Jewish doctor to cure you, etc.

  76. Its always disheartening to see the contortions people go through to defend Israel’s actions and policies. And, once in a while, it is truly bizarre to observe. Thanks to you and Peter for providing the latter.

    But I’m just a bit curious. If you are oppressing, torturing, and killing the Palestinians because God told you to, then what makes you different than a muslim religious fanatic?

  77. “You mean like the rash of Palestinian attacks on Israeli citizens?”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/ascherman-attacked-wielding

    The Palestinian government catalogued last year more than 1,000 incidents of settler attacks against Palestinians, a majority taking place in villages in close proximately to Israeli settlements and outposts.

    The Israeli human rights group Yesh Din found that over the past ten years Israel indicted less than 1.9-percent of settler attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.

  78. To poa,

    Thanks for having admitted that Muslims are oppressing, torturing and killing !
    Anyways here is how the Israelis are different:
    The Israelis have created most of the modern medicine ( for example the angioplasty procedure and the cardiological stent – which have eliminated the need for open heart surgery -, the dental implant – which has eliminated the need for dentures, the MRI, etc ), That’s why, as we speak, Ismail Hannye’s ( the Hamas leader from Gaza)daughter is treated in a Tel-Aviv hospital, that’s why Palestinian children from Gaza and Hebron are treated at the Wolfson Hospital in Holon, for congenital heart disease.
    You got all that ? OK, now go back to your factory shift, Gentile !

  79. > Can you find me a video of marching Palestinians chanting “death to jews”? I strongly doubt it.

    Your willful blindness and abject ignorance is breathtaking. Truly one has to study to be this stupid. Congratulations, sir.

    Here are pictures of Palestinians posing their toddlers with knives so that they might join the “stabbing Intifada” and murder Jews at their earliest convenience. link: http://goo.gl/QRv4Yr

    Under the hashtag “Al-Quds Intifada,” Jordanian Facebook user ‘Abd Al-Halim Abu ‘Aysha posted a video titled “Rahaf Threatens the Zionists with a Knife,” in which his daughter Rahaf holds a knife and declares she wants to stab a Jew.[9]

    After receiving positive responses to the video, ‘Abd Al-Halim posted a photo of his son Sa’id. He commented, “My children practice with a meat knife. They have a deep hatred for Jews.”[10]

    Report: Thousands of Israeli Arabs, Palestinians Post ‘Death to Jews’ on Their Facebook Profiles

    link: http://goo.gl/xOWvkB

    More Palestinian anti-semitism: a dozen social media posts from Palestinian officials praising the murders of Jews. (This is supported with US tax dollars):

    link: http://goo.gl/QwzrTk

    Palestinian Anger Gets a Violent Soundtrack: Songs Include “Run Over, Run Over the [Jew]Settler,” and “Stab, Stab”

    link: http://goo.gl/X9Tjpp

    To document every utterance of Palestinian murderous anti-semitism is a futile, Sisyphean task; it would be like trying to name each grain of sand on all the world’s beaches.

    Suffice it to say, POA, that you have demonstrated that your perspective is one-sided, malicious, and either stupid or ignorant.

    No one can trust what you say.

    Good night.

  80. “Anyways here is how the Israelis are different..”

    http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october212015/palestine-massacre.php

    Citing the Torah, Jewish rabbi calls for Genocide against Palestinians, urging Jews to “show them no mercy”.

    “All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts” Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, the director of the Tsomet Religious Institute, relentlessly stated – issuing a religious edict permitting the genocide of Palestinians.

    “Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy. Kill continuously, one after the other… Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys…”

    Rosen cited the Torah, claiming that Amalekites are not a specific race. He came to the conclusion that Jewish jurisprudence rules in favor of killing Palestinians in cold blood.

  81. Ah yes, you post from a website known as the hasbarist’s helper. A chronicle of hatred, exageration, hasbara, and complete and utter crap. Come back with a credible source, and we’ll talk.

  82. Here are pictures of Palestinians posing their toddlers with knives

    Aww … they’re so cute when they’re armed, deadly, and full of hate.

    Ah yes, you post from a website known as the hasbarist’s helper. A chronicle of hatred, exageration, hasbara, and complete and utter crap.

    I’m not the biggest fan of the New York Times either, but I think that’s taking things a little bit too far.

  83. Oh yeah. The NYTs, in its unbiased opinion, states in the article that the “uprising” is “fueled” by “social media”.

    Never mind the occupation. Never mind settler violence. Never mind prominent rabbis and high cabinet members calling for genocide. Never mind blockades, settlement expansion, shortages of medical supplies, building materials, basic human needs.

    Yep. Its just social media inciting those heathen genetic inferiors.

    You people, in your inhumanity and racist hatred, make me sick, Brian.

    “Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy. Kill continuously, one after the other… Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys…” – Rabbi Rosen.

    “They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there”- Ayelet Skaked (Israeli Justice Minister)

    “there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution… and nobody will bring it to a vote, it’s not smart to do it — but if you bring it to a vote, you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it.”-Defense minister Danny Danon

    “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”- Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira

  84. And these children, are we to ignore them?

    https://storify.com/davidsheen/israeli-army-the-next-generation

    A sampling….

    : “Kill Arab children so there won’t be a next generation”

    And what about Israeli youths encouraged, and photographed, to sign bombs and missiles headed for Lebanon?

    Or, what about these children….

    http://ifamericansknew.org/stat/children.html#source

    133 Israeli children and 2,065 Palestinian children have been killed since September 29, 2000.

  85. You people, in your inhumanity and racist hatred, make me sick, Brian.

    Me?! Project much, POA? Where have I said anything racist? On the contrary, I only made a comment about how cute some pictures of children are.

    You’re the one who has been spouting his hatred of Israel for days, if not weeks, here. Deny it all you want, but it’s all here for everybody to see.

    I guess it never crossed your mind that most people reading this site just don’t care and are tired of watching you spam this site with your hatred-fueled, off-topic vitriol. I realize that you have recently been baited by a couple of real jerks (who were probably doing it only for fun), but it’s your fault that you are so easily baited.

    Seriously, have you ever considered anger management therapy?

  86. Thats all you’ve got, isn’t it, Brian? You never address the actual facts as they apply to isr/pal.

    Here’s the deal, Brian. You wanna know how it is I brand you as an ignorant racist bigot? Because you never, NEVER, recognize Israel’s wrongs, no matter how egregious. Your whole ignorant rap is that somehow the Palestinians deserve whatever they get. Thats all you’ve ever offered.

    I don’t condone Palestinian violence. But I understand it. It is the inevitable result of occupation, oppression, daily humiliation, and losing all hope of having a nation to call their own.

    But you? Israel can apparently do no wrong. No comment about genocide being advocated by important israeli diplomats and rabbis. No comment on obscene racist behaviour by IDF forces. No comment about expanding settlements. No comment about the Torah being interpreted, by celebrated rabbis to mean killing gentiles is A-Ok. Eugenics that cast certain races as being “inferior”? Thats perfectly allright with you. No comment about settler terrorism. No comment about teenagers about to go into the IDF expressing viral hatred of Arabs. No comment about the death of the two state solution.

    Nope. Instead, we get the steady stream of ignorant sputter that you always drool out on this topic. Don’t be so quick to label Peter and his cronies as “jerks”. You are every bit as ignorant in your presentation of defensive arguments in Israel’s favor. Except you never offer any. Gee, how come? Speechless, or ya just can’t stand brown people?

  87. @Brian and poa

    This rhetorical battle ends here. Though both of you spend some of your effort addressing the arguments of the other, both of you have been labeling and attacking the person more than the arguments.

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